Interview with Rockstar Superhero: Building the Army of Righteousness

The Rockstar Superhero Interview with As Lions and Lambs

As Lions and Lambs have one musical direction and that direction is straight up. A four piece metal act, As Lions and Lambs has to be the heaviest, thuddiest, chuggiest monstrosity I’ve heard in a very long time. To top it off, they’re crushing hearts and minds for the King. Yes, you read it right. As Lions and Lambs is a band with a positive message. Christ is King, so let’s mosh. I don’t know if I can say anything else, but let’s get one thing straight. They aren’t hiding a thing. The words, the feelings and the intent are crystal clear and their path is a righteous one. I’ve never met a group of guys with this much purpose worn on their ragged sleeves, and you’ll never be able to deny the truth once you step across the great divide into the realm they inhabit. This is musical purity. This is As Lions and Lambs.

Zach From a geographic standpoint, it was pretty influential for me and my brother growing up musically, in the same basement pretty much every afternoon after school. Having a super close friendship growing up and relating to the same types of music and becoming interested in doing music together was a big part of how we founded the band. We’ve always been doing music together.

Mitch It was a gradual progression. We were going through the archives a couple of weeks ago. Zach and I were listening to stuff that we made when I was 5 and Zach was 7. It was awesome listening to stuff that we recorded. We never really stopped messing around with tracking stuff here, or writing stuff there, and it kept getting heavier and heavier.

Zach Matt was a connection that we found simply through playing local shows. He was in another band and we hit it off. The same was true of Dan, although it was kind of funny actually, because I had auditioned for his band before Mitch and I started As Lions and Lambs. I got turned down too, so that was great.

Rob That’s perfect!

Zach Do you remember that?

Dan Zach was such a good drummer and I wanted him so badly but we thought we were more death metal and Zach was more metalcore and it didn’t work.

Zach Then, Dan quit that band and joined this one! Obviously, the timeline is truncated a little bit, but that’s pretty much what happened.

Rob It’s interesting how genres or subgenres can affect how much we think we’re going to fit with somebody. Is it Metalcore? Is it Djent? Is it Noisecore or Grindcore? Can’t it just kick ass? One of the things that caught me immediately is your image. You have a very specific look and I think a lot of people would unfairly say you’ve stolen from other people’s looks. Have you ever been compared to other bands who have a similar look or a similar sound? Has that ever been an issue for you?

Zach From a look standpoint I would say not really. Everybody loves to tell you when you sound like another band. They’re going to come up to you and say, “you guys sound just like this band and this band put together.” I don’t care what people think we sound like because I know that what we’re creating is authentic to what we want to make. There’s nothing completely original under the sun. There are certain things that are stereotypes of the genre and certain things that we’ve put our own spin on, but our look actually birthed out of a Halloween show.

Matt We were playing a Halloween show and then after we were done playing, we decided to stick with the look.

Zach You mentioned us having an iconic look, and that really is the reason we did it. Simply put, when you’re in a local scene, and you’re just another band on the bill, you want to do something that makes sense and stands out. That was a big part of the motivation, obviously.

Rob Yeah, it’s a huge thing. There are so many producers out there that really care that you have a cohesive look, and that you already have something preset so they don’t have to fix you down the road, if you know what I mean? You’re ahead of the curve with the masks, too, right?

Zach Well, we’ve made jokes about that. Covid came to steal our brand.

Rob “The enemy sent Covid to take away our look.” How do you sing through those masks, though? I can’t imagine. How do you “survive” with a mask over your face. while you’re jumping around n stage? I don’t understand how this is possible?

Matt Well, I only wear mine for 25 seconds which is why we’re working on getting better masks. I almost die.

Zach We are definitely evolving our look, but our goal is to wear them all the time. It’s a part of all of our promotional stuff, but on stage it presents some logistical challenges just because of how wild we get. There is a certain level of logistical complexity to the performance. One time, we were playing we were playing a festival two years ago and it was 105 degrees in an outdoor tent. I have never seen Matt so close to the brink of no return.

Rob Of leaving the band?

Zach Of leaving the Earth.

Rob That’s awesome. You know how Goretex keeps people from getting wet, but it breathes? You need to come up with a breathable mask solution.

Zach We need proprietary fabrics! We need people to buy our albums so we can afford it.

Rob A second ago, Zach, you mentioned evolution, and it’s interesting because your material has evolved. There’s no way to stop that from happening. You guys have placed the word legend in front of the word heavy. It’s striking how deep and chunky and riffy it is. I’ve never really heard anything like it. I remember thinking that these guys better love Jesus because this is weird. You’re here today to talk a bit about Misery Season. Right? I’ve heard a few songs on it and what I’ve heard is stellar. How has the evolution of your songwriting process and recording process changed over the years?

Zach That’s a great question. It has never really stayed the same.

Matt With each release, it’s definitely been kind of a different process.

Zach Yeah, and our life has changed a lot. I don’t know if you would have noticed that throughout our musical discography, but our lineup, from the instrumental component and as primary songwriters, has been in place for the lifetime of the band. We’ve changed our vocalist five times. We’re hoping to never change it again with Matt.

Rob And look at how cute he is.

Zach Our band has been in flux a lot, but we’ve achieved a balance now. Matt, how long have you been in the band?

Matt Since 2016-ish.

Zach So now that it’s been 5 years, we have a consistent lineup. I think Letters from a Broken Heart was the first release that we worked on, front to back, as the four of us, and you can see a lot of the pieces of what was happening on some of our earlier releases. Things have fallen into a little bit of rhythm and evolve more intentionally from 2016 as well as the releases that followed. I think that’s the best way to articulate how we’ve navigated the evolution of the sound and how we got on the same page as a group.

Rob Yeah. I noticed that if you go back a bit, you guys were actually a five piece for a period of time.  Those things are always tough to deal with because you’re doing them in the public eye and people wonder, “will this band that I’ve fallen in love with going to stick around? When you’re in a band, you’re married to these other individuals. You have all the same components of a marriage. You have the relationship issues, the jealousy issues, the anger issues, and the differences. Do you guys think it’s hard to be in a band with each other?

Matt You guys have to answer that!

Dan I don’t think it’s hard for the three instrumentalists. We’ve never had any strife at all and Matt is the easiest guy to get along with, in the world.

Rob And he’s been around for five years!

Matt There’s just been no strife at all for the band.

Zach I think that speaks to the family dynamic that we’ve had as a group and also as literal brothers, which you talked about before. Bands with brothers are going to be legendary or full of heartache. Throughout our childhood, we’ve always just been really tight, so that has definitely informed the dynamics of the band relationship. We’ve been really blessed in that way, and it’s been really cool to do not only what we love to do, but also do it with people that we genuinely care about and get along with.

Rob That’s awesome. Thank you, Zach, for breaking that down.

Mitch We do try to be intentional by making sure we’re clear with each other about the goals that we have for the band. And I know we all have had experiences, whether it was a season in this band or with other projects that we were in, where it’s like, I don’t even like this anymore. It’s just like a chore, basically, or it’s just like going to work again. Like so, you know, there’s been times where we practice more frequently and we were putting in a lot more time and then other times where we talked and, you know, one of us had something going on or, you know, we just necessarily weren’t feeling as a group. And we were like, hey, let’s take a step back, because taking a month where we give ourselves some breathing room is better than running ourselves into the ground and then having this big, you know, whatever, whatever blow up or whatever to,

Rob Are you guys any of you married or have kids?

Matt I have two kids.

Rob I imagine that has to be a bit of a challenge, when you’re doing stuff, or when you go away. Do you tour a lot?

Matt It varies. Thankfully, with my one daughter, I’m on really good terms with her mother. We’re like family. Communication is always so easy between us. It’s a blessing, honestly, to even have the opportunity to be able to travel when I have kids I’m responsible for.

Rob I’m actually blown away that you have children. There is an expectation of people of faith that is insane. I grew up in the church. I got saved when I was ten years old. I walked away. I did all the stupid things. I got girls pregnant. We had abortions. I wanted to make a statement about this, and that is that everybody assumes people of faith are trying to be perfect or that they expect others to be. What you’ve just shared is so important because it states that you’re human and without Christ, there’s nothing. At least we have Him. I applaud you for saying it out loud, because those children aren’t mistakes.

Matt No, no, absolutely not. They’re definitely a blessing from the Lord. Yes, I have made a boatload of mistakes in my life, and I’ll be the first one to admit it. I’ve been through divorce. I’ve dealt with depression in my life. I’ve struggled with pornography and everything, but it was God’s grace and the people that God has put into my life that helped me to stay on track and to get out of those negative environments. I’m not perfect, and I’ll be the first one to admit that, and that’s why we continually need the grace of our savior.

Rob That’s awesome. When it comes to negative themes, how do you deal with them as artists? Who writes the lyrics and how do you sort of stay between the lines?

Matt I definitely do more of the lyrical writing. We’re not just sticking to the “Christian thing.” Our lyrics help us to reach out to more people and show them that there is hope beyond the hurt and the pain. It’s like saying, “look, we went through this junk in the past, but this is what God did for us, and this is how we overcame these struggles and challenges.”

Zach I think Matt hit it on the head. We are unified on the conceptual direction that we take things. So when it comes to what we’re putting forth in our lyrical content, there is definitely a product of us as a unit, which I think, again, helps us to buy into what we’re doing and really strengthens the bond and the investment that we have in the music that we’re making.

Rob It seems to me that the lyrics have a very, very dark approach, yet there’s hope at the end of the song, if that makes sense? What is the general theme of what you’re trying to convey?

Dan Misery Season is a concept album that is about an abusive relationship. However, by the last song, ‘Escape Artist’ the protagonist gets out of this cycle and they come to find hope and they come to find God. We want to write these darker themes because they give those people, who have gone through abuse, a voice. In the Christian music scene, I feel like it’s just not talked about enough. People are quick to throw it under the rug and that’s it. We definitely want to dive into that darker realm so people can see that there’s hope beyond it.

Matt The album was very inspired by true events that actually happened.

Zach We want to position ourselves as people who do have a hope, as people who do have an underlying faith, and an understanding of the intrinsic value of a person because of how they’re created to be in the image of God. In the same breath, we wanted to exhibit a sensitivity towards what life might feel like for a person experiencing that. Some people have gone through horrors that I can’t put words to, but it’s an attempt to come down to that level and to bear those burdens alongside rather than to preach at.

Rob Yeah. This is the thing I love to talk about. You’re not trying to be anything pious but you guys happen to be Believers. It’s a beautiful byproduct of who you are versus being “a Christian band.” Is that fair?

Zach I appreciate that.

Mitch Yeah, absolutely.

Rob I know I described your album as monstrously heavy earlier, but it might be beyond that. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything this slow or chunky before. It’s like you guys got infected by the Melvins and you pulled all the silly stuff out and then you decided you wanted to be progressive metal band and change it up every two bars. It’s really something. Who decided that this is the sound you’re going to make? Zach, you’re producing this stuff, right?

Zach Yeah, but i don’t want to take too much credit. We self produce everything. We’re tracking our own parts and crafting our own tones. However, as far as handling a final mix and some of the production value and stuff, yes, that’s mostly my brainchild. That said, it is very much a collaborative effort, and our DNA as a group is all over the entire album.

Mitch After the last album, we decided to begin the transition to a heavier sound. This was overall very good news. In fact, when Matt joined up, his whole approach was, “the heavier the better,” and so we went that direction. I feel like this album has been written by us, as performers, because we love to make it as fun and as energetic as possible live.

Zach We take live performance very seriously. When you have technical guitar solos and real intricate writing, it’s very difficult to engage people. When we’re in the studio, we are asking, “how is this going to translate?”

Mitch You had mentioned that our songs are changing every two bars. We cannot fix that, because any time we hear a repeated theme, we are forcing ourselves to do it. It’s not satisfying. Our writing style has always been very linear and that’s been true whether we were doing super heavy stuff or not. It’s always been like this.

Rob I love it because it’s unique. Nothing sounds like you guys, and that’s what drew me. No fancy comments, but I think that’s what makes As Lions and Lambs really special.

Zach That’s awesome. Thank you.

Rob I can’t stand poseur Christianity. I can’t stand it and it doesn’t have to be fake, but often it is. Why can’t we just headbang, you know? I’d love to go to a church where everybody feels like they are an outcast, but they’re welcome and there’s no piety, and all bets are off. What is off limits for your band and your brand?

Zach That’s a good question. There is a Catholic church that does a metal mass, so you can check that out.

Rob Just think of all the blast beats.

Zach They do the entire mass, but it’s just straight up Norwegian black metal style. Pretty amazing.

Rob I wonder if there is ever going to be a place, at least in the US, that bands like you can go and fit into? There are a lot of great pastors and a lot of great messages, but I’m tired of hearing about the saccharine Jesus. Jesus already made it better, but we have to step into what He has for us.

Zach Social engineering and fitness and culturally mimicked acts of piety have caricatured a lot of what we see in the modern expression of Christianity, and that’s something that I have wrestled with a lot. Bottom line, we’re pretty excited for the opportunity to play for anyone in any environment because we’re not all that concerned about how we’re perceived. We’ve played shows where we’re the only people within a 10 mile radius that looks or acts even remotely “Christian,” yet we’ve also played Creation Festival where we’re the furthest away from what people expect a Christian band to look like. A lot of people probably wish we weren’t.

Rob They think Lacey Sturm is way over the edge.

Zach Exactly, and we say, “just hang on.” Being a catalyst for people to express themselves authentically and to hopefully have a genuine faith building moment is always something we embrace. Will we ever lead a congregation in metal Jesus worship? I highly doubt that will ever happen, but I don’t think we’d say no.

Rob I plan on making it happen. Maybe someday in Japan?

Zach Perfect. Let’s roll!

Rob Where does your band stand on the spectrum of faith over what the world or the fans want from you?

Mitch There was definitely a time where the Christian “core” thing was sort of the way to attract people. So many people were listening to these Christian bands. To tie in to what Matt was saying earlier when he was talking about lyrics, we aren’t necessarily concerned with having lyrics with Bible verses, or a line about Jesus in our music. We’re hoping we can connect to people’s hearts and their situations into life changing faith. We want to be the band that really inspires people. I don’t think there’s been a single show we played where we haven’t gotten an opportunity to share a testimony up on stage. The conversations that we get to have with people at our merch table afterwards, in my opinion, are way more valuable than any lyric you can put in a song.

Matt Yeah. 100 percent.

Rob That’s amazing.

Zach I’m grateful that the trend of labeling yourself a Christian band has died out because it forced the poseurs to go back to posing as something else. Then, when we stick our necks out a little bit and identify the way we do, it actually means something.

Rob Going back to what I said earlier, there’s a misunderstanding that Christianity means something it doesn’t mean and it’s never meant. It’s been politicized and altered by culture and, to me, God just wants us to step into who we are. Do you agree with that or disagree with that?

Zach A lot of people say to me, “you don’t seem like a Christian.” Unfortunately, I think people expect Christians to be judgmental. There’s broken people everywhere and we’re all broken people, and we see that a lot in this scene.

Mitch Obviously, people expect Christians to behave like we’re here to judge you. We certainly don’t want to be perceived as that type of Christian, which obviously is not okay, because that’s not representative of Christ.

Rob The self-congratulatory Christian.

Zach Exactly. I think you nailed it, dude. I want to be perceived as a Christian, but not the stereotype. The subverted label of “Christian” has unfortunately become the dominant narrative in secular society. I want to be known as a Christian in the sense that I was a follower of Christ and everything that we’re supposed to reflect, making those fruits evident in my life. The way may be polarizing to some, but ultimately, if my life looks no different than someone who doesn’t claim Christ, then I know I’m doing something wrong.

Mitch We want to be thought of as different. That there’s something about this.

Rob Right. There’s something that glows about you, not “I’m awesome because I’m a Christian kind of guy.”.

Zach That is genuinely our intention. Yes.

Rob That’s beautiful. I love it. How has Misery Season been received?

Matt Better than I anticipated, honestly.

Mitch I haven’t had anyone message me and say, “hey, I just wanted to let you know, I really dislike the album.”  People go out of their way to give us feedback, and it’s always been positive. It gives us an opportunity to have great dialog with people, so in my mind, it’s a success, you know?

Rob Have you ever had an experience after a show where somebody comes up and they want to know more about Christ and you just lead them right there?

Dan I’ve had a couple of experiences after our shows where I share my heart with them and they were like, “man, that really impacted me.” I’ve had the opportunity to pray with them and stuff. I’ve seen God touch a few people in those moments, so there’s definitely been opportunities after the shows.

Zach Yeah, and Matt, by leading in that spirit of vulnerability, makes himself available and makes people feel safe to come and talk to him. That’s been a really cool thing to witness, but it’s also been something that I’ve experienced personally as well. People have come up to me afterwards and asked for prayer for a very specific thing that maybe Matt talked about on stage. I’ve always found that humbling. People discover that Matt’s not just doing a spiel. There are a lot of situations where we don’t hear anything, but, we choose to believe in faith. Just because we don’t necessarily see something happen, doesn’t mean that it didn’t have impact.

Rob You do this all so well and I’m inspired by you guys. I wanted to say thank you from the deepest core of my heart. Talking to you all has been really special.

Zach Wow. We appreciate that a lot. We appreciate that you give artists a platform to speak and share, so thank you.

Article originally appears courtesy of Rockstar Superhero:

https://www.rockstarsuperhero.com/building-the-army-of-righteousness-as-lions-and-lambs/